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New Rules for Testing

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Iron Mario
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Which ideas should be entered into the Testing System?

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Total Votes : 11
 
 

New Rules for Testing Empty New Rules for Testing

Post by ! Gianus Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:18 pm

Hello people of NDA,

I recently got retested and I have read the rules for testing and I think that there are a few things that should be changed:

1. Testers should be more detailed when posting the results. They should give a short example of why they gave X points for the parts that they are judging
It should look something like this:
Spoiler:

A great upside of posting the results like this is that people that view the results can understand the situation and the person being tested way better.
The numbers on theirselves are meaningless to the people that have not seen the test-match.

Other then that, it allows people to judge the Tester.
I am not saying that Testers post inaccurate or false results, but it can definitly happen! Especially when the Tester does not allow watchers in the duel, he can abuse his powers as a Tester.

AGAIN, I am not accusing anyone! I am just trying to prevent a thing like this from happening!

2. Testers should not be allowed to side in a Test duel.
The main objective of testing someone is to see how good and experienced they are in playing the YGO game. The Tester shouldn't aim to win at all costs.

-If the Tester is allowed to side (which he currently is), the person being tested has to side against what he thinks will be sided against him, making it twice as hard for the tested person to side.

-If the Tester is not allowed to side, then the person being tested only has to side cards that he thinks will either block his opponent or defend himself. Meaning that you are able to see if the person being tested has good knowledge of your deck.

Given the first situation, the tested person could side a card which he thinks would be good against a card that you might or might not have sided against him. And if you have not sided the card that he thought you would have, the card he thought would be usefull will be completely useless which means that you think that the tested person has no idea what he's doing while that might not be the case.

Given the second situation, there will be a distinct difference between people that have knowledge of your deck in general or people that have no idea of what your deck is capable of. Which will result in more accurate Test Results.

3. We need to have Test Decks! The current Tesing System only prohibits the Tester from using certain decks. This means that the Tester can still choose to play alot of different decks!
This, ofcourse, results in unfair tests. The deck taht one Tester uses to test people could be twice as good as a deck that another Tester uses to test people.

It would be amazing if the Testers (or anyone, it doesn't really matter) made 5-6 decks which will be the Test Decks.
These decks have to be more or less equally good, should not be able to counter any specific decks because that would be unfair for the tested person if he coincidently used that deck, and they must be more focussed on testing someone based on Rulings and Use of Cards and Strategy.
Mainly because winning or losing in this game does not say as much about the player as his knowledge of the game.

If necessary, I am willing to help you guys to create decks like these. I have done this before and I have like 2 or 3 good Test Deck ideas.

Please vote on which ideas you think are good and should be entered into the Testing System with an explanation of why you think they should/shouldn't.

Thank you for your time!
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Post by ! The Black Rose ! Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:23 pm

I kinda agree with the siding part and for certain decks testers cant use a deck thats tier 1 or 1.5.
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Post by laglag Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:53 pm

i agree with a few rules (same as black rose).


P.S.: Hey Gianus...next stop = adminship?
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Post by ! The Black Rose ! Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:07 pm

So no i dont agree with the certain deck part since they r just not allowed to use decks that are tier 1 or 1.5. And the siding part i kinda agree but idk yet if that should be passed.
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Post by Iron Mario Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Well, I wouldn't agree with the siding rule, because I see it like this: testers end up facing all kinds of decks, and that means sometimes we end up facing top tier decks or things alike, so it would be unfair that while the tested can side and could disrupt our strategy more easily, we wouldn't be able to do much against decks like darkworld, wind-ups, etc. that are powerful but can be easily sided against at times. So, if your strategy could be stopped by a card (example: shadow imprisoning mirror vs darkworld) and just by that you end up being defenseless, that would show your deck isn't ready to face everything in a duel and thus getting minus points. But if we can't side, sometimes the tested would be able to continue their strategy normally while they are already prepared for ours, since they know we couldn't have added a card dangerous for their deck.
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Post by ! Gianus Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:11 pm

@Iron Mario, I can see your point there.. But I hope that you can also understand my point.

Then what if there is a limit on the amount of cards that a tester might side? 3-4 or something like that..
What is your opinion on that?
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Post by ! The Black Rose ! Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:14 pm

mario u do have a good point i only agree with the first one now lol.
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Post by Iron Mario Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:21 pm

Sounds good to me, since decks that are highly used can normally be sided against with fewer cards, while others not as used could need more. So I'd say that a tester being able to side 5 cards against the tested is a fair limit, although I don't know what the rest of the academy thinks.
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Post by ! Gianus Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:33 pm

Well someone doesn't really side more than 5 cards that often..
It's kinda like limiting Spor instead of unlimiting is. It seems like there is a restriction on it while in fact there really isn't any because no1 uses more than 1
Limiting it down to 3 or 4 would seem reasonable to me.
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Post by Iron Mario Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:38 pm

ok, then 4, sounds good?
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Post by tavo69 Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:05 pm

I agree with idea one, testers need to be more detailed with their results that way the testee can learn from his/her mistakes and fix the deck for next time.
Also for the test deck idea i think its fine as it is since we cannot use tier 1-2 but i think it would be good if the tester also posted the name of the deck used incase they accidently use meta.
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Post by ! Gianus Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:24 am

Ok, let me elaborate a bit about the Test Decks...

The Tester can choose any deck they want except for 9 types of decks which are considered meta. Meaning that the deck that 1 Tester uses might be twice as good as the deck that another Tester would use.

For example, if I were a Tester, I would probably use my Synchron deck. And some of you might not know, but although it is not considered meta, it could totally obliterate my opponent in 2 turns which is all but fair for someone getting a Test.
In fact alot of decks that are "under teh radar" in the current meta game can still be pretty dang good!
Inzektors,
Blackwings
Gladiator Beasts
Yes, a Tester is not allowed to OTK or FTK, but he could still use a deck that shuts down almost everything his opponent does or a deck taht is just 10 times as fast even though the testee is playing a good deck.

Another thing is that the Tester would choose a control deck (like Gravekeepers) and by chance it would totally shut down the deck of the testee.
Gravekeepers
Macro Cosmos/Banishment
I can't really think of anything more but there are certainly decks that can totally block the deck that the testee might use.

An example of a Test Deck that I'm talking about is Dark Worlds.
Yes, DWs are pretty fast and unfair but it's not like regular DWs. One of the Test Decks that I've made in the past for other academies is DWs, but much slower and with cards like Hand Destruction and The Tricky and with only 2 Graphas so it would still have a limit to how good your field could be.

This is the deck that I've made back then: https://i.imgur.com/TLPpp.png

So why a deck like this? Well because DWs are amazing for testing someone's knowledge about a very infamous deck. Any good YGO player should have some knowledge about any deck currently in the meta.
DWs have some complicated rulings about sending/discarding that not aoll players know of. If you discard a DW monster using Hand Destruction, you won't get the effects of the DW monster discarded, but if you say that you do you could TEST for real if that person has this knowledge of a very infamous deck.

Other then that you can play with costs/effects and test if the testee has knowledge about certain game mechanics. This can be done with "Dark World Lightning", "Hand Destruction" and "The Tricky".
(The Tricky discards as a cost so the DW won't activate.)

Cards like Ceruli and Snoww have a very confusing wording and any competative YGO player should know what these cards do regardless of how they are worded.
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Post by Tobi Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:52 pm

gianus some people who hate quasar would consider it otk. but i agree with your ideas. since i only make small number of decks i only use 3 for testing. for siding, but even so i think testers should because you should some what expect some to block certain decks. when i side, i dont do anti meta siding, i do smoke screening which is close to but not the same thing cause no cards are anti meta in my testing deck.
also the 3rd idea is hard to keep track of because you need to have the test results say what deck the tester used.
problem is i actual use my entire side deck
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Post by fireanshu Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:28 pm

hmm this is all very interesting. I once went to an academy that made the testee and the tester use certain decks basically the tester would use meta and the teste used like zombies. thats obviously a horrible idea causing horrible scores to most of the testes. however if we limit the tester decks to 6 decks testes can easily prepare. see whenever i test i use an original deck or many unusual which often eliminates the side deck severly dumbing down the game and end up in an equal position and simply out playing my oponent by grinding them down little by little
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Post by ! Gianus Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:38 pm

fireanshu wrote:hmm this is all very interesting. I once went to an academy that made the testee and the tester use certain decks basically the tester would use meta and the teste used like zombies. thats obviously a horrible idea causing horrible scores to most of the testes. however if we limit the tester decks to 6 decks testes can easily prepare. see whenever i test i use an original deck or many unusual which often eliminates the side deck severly dumbing down the game and end up in an equal position and simply out playing my oponent by grinding them down little by little

What you're saying is very true indeed and there's no denying that. But that problem can be helped.
The Test Decks that will be made (if these ideas go through) should be kept a secret. Only known to the Admins and the Testers or to the entire staff section.
This way a testee cannot know beforehand which deck he might face.

And as for your comment B@T, the Tester doesn't have to state the deck that he used in the Test Duel.
and btw, My deck isn't Quasar.. It's Quickdraw ._.
Hate it when ppl say Quasar...
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Post by Tobi Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:19 pm

in the other people's defense you do run quasar. i never said you use that deck. i have seen you use other types of builds for quickdraw deck
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Post by ! Gianus Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:36 pm

It rly isn't quasar -.-
I'm serious! It's an amazing coincidence that Quasar can be summoned so easily with that deck but It rly wasn't build to summon Quasar...
It's main focus is QD..
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Post by Tobi Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:47 pm

ik its not quasar but it jsut so happans you do. but quickdraw is very useful monster
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Post by Polarpop Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:32 am

I fully agree with Gianus and personally voted for all of them. I have had more then my fair share of testing people on here and* SSA; I used to jump through hoops testing people on NDA long time ago before many of you joined and have personally tested quite a few of our veteran members and I have always had issues with our testing system and have had recommendations on it a multitude of times over the year I've spent here. . .

This is not all based on false backgrounds, I was an admin at SSA and tester and mod multiple times here on our own NDA and on SSA our test exam was much more complicated to say, but it was also much more accurate and had a higher overall point system allowing more leeway for good or bad rankings. I know from being an admin on SSA and agreeing with most of Gianus's testing policies that I know for a fact our test decks did the job if it was by a truely talented or good tester.

Furthermore allowing the room and much needed tips to explain why you gave them that score makes for less possible corrupt or inaccurate test results and instead of throwing someone in Synchro-Zone allows them to understand there mistakes and try to work and improve or correct upon those mistakes in their future tests. If the test was *only for a rank it would be much more pointless then if it was the aim of an academy; To make a good network and group of friends, enemies, and people of all the likes to improve themselves and become better players mentally and physically.

The main problem with only not allowing testers to use "tier 1" decks is what about testers who use anti meta or amazing decks that just aren't highly played and therefore 'meta' this format; Also our tier list seems to non be updated often enough or thorough enough at this point in many our academy members opinions' whether they admit it again or not, I've been personally told this quite a few times... I have helped out with trying to make a deck for the testers or two my self personally and you guys seem to think only 3 would be allowed, you could make a huge list of 20-25 decks you think are fair to test people with for this format; This could easily be implemented with time and care of putting it together before or after/if you release this rule.

The no siding rule is a-bit touchy, there should be a limit to how much you can side or certain side cards a tester can or can not use when testing people with those specific decks. You don't even have to ruin your decks with the current save deck *as* button on DN now you can use your real decks with the tester needed twists and/or tweaks.

I don't object or rage at people who vote even none of these but if you are please take the time to state your reasoning's and prove you understood and comprehended this all correctly for why you are against changing our old policies at this point.
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Post by ! Gianus Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:08 am

*BUMP*

It seems that 8/10 people find idea 1 a good idea, however I still don't see any changes.
Could we at least do idea 1?
As I said before, numbers on itself don't mean anything to someone that hasn't seen teh test.
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Post by Tobi Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:48 pm

the system is kind of blaaahhh but erebus to answer your question, the person in charge of tier list is gleb who never updates it alot.
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Post by Tobi Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:51 pm

also for idea number 3 there should be a set amount of decks and all testers need to put down what decks they can use. the tier list is more of options for testers to use. i rather be stuck to 5 decks then be able to choose any optional deck i want.
ideas 1 good
ideas 2 decent but i want to smoke screen not anti meta siding
idea 3 i like
gianus go send it to clabeff cause he does testing and everything and then see if he approves.
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Post by Polarpop Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:25 pm

hell you guys could make it where only certain archetypes are allowed but alot of em..like a big list for testers+ only... thats simple and atleast more fair then any deck.
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Post by laglag Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:52 pm

lol time for a coment from my side.

1st: i only agrre to rule number 1, causse it rly is helpful when you explain your reasons. And yes i also do this since i am a tester here.

2nd: rule number 2 is kinds shoot. i mean the tested person should face a real duel situation. in a normal duel you also need to face situations like dw + mirror, or sth like that. and when you cant solve situations like that, you just arent good enough for top dorms. i mean what is the use of a test where the testee doesnt need to show his full potential? thats y i dont like this rule. To your example i can only say, that whe nthis happens for example in a war, no opponent would ever end the game as a tie and start a knew one to mmake this siding mistake unhappen.....

3rd: this rule brings back memorys. I just remember how it was introduced into ssa,and i remember how it was removed soon. it started with tthat the owner added a few decks for ever dorm ,that the tester should use. and the big problem was, that nearly no one made top dorm, and realy good duelists won it too easy. the many loses of testees was that every1 used extremly pro decks, so that it was hard to defeat them, too hard (wu.loop, and stuff like that). and the 2nd point was cause good duelists knew the decklists and were able to win very easy with this.

4th: lol now you will answer that the test decks wouldnt be too strong. that doesnt save the ides from being bad. cause when the test decks arent good and are build to test knowledge and stuff like that, it would just end into a lot of 2:0 wins with otk decks from your opponent. also i am very interested to see these test decks in action, cause somehow i dont trust them, that they are powerful enough.

5th: I think the only good version of rule 3 would be to forbidd to use otk based decks and loop decks for the tester,also anti meta decks shouldnt be allowed.

6th: to the limit that a tester can side..... does this change anything? the testee know you only have 4 cards that cou can side. it still isnt good that way, cause when you look at my argument against it and at marios 1st argument against it you can see that it wouldnt change anything.

7th: the decks that you said that they are not k for testing arent rly that strong. i mean when was the last time that you lost to gladis. and inzektors arent that good anymore, but they loop so i agree with forbid them. now the most important part of your talking: Anti-Meta deck! it is right, ever anti meta deck shouldnt be used as a test deck, cause it would forbid the testee to use his effs.

8th: you said that you would make the tester decks as a secret, k.... thats obvisualy strange. It would be possible, but what is with the tricky situation that a tester gets tested, or that a tester gats demoted?

Fazit:
The only useful rule in the way you said it is number 1. Numbber 2 is not useful as i demonstrated with my arguments, and number 3 is hard to discuss. The problem with number 3 is that you could theoretic the same arguments as for number 2, but when you see t practical, than you will see that testing with a loop deck is different from using a side deck. The big different is the ability to prepare yourself.
I dont know y it is so important for you to make at least one of the rules, but it is k, i thinkrule 1 couldbe added. But can you plz promise me one thing? Plz dont try to get your "shortforms of words are forbidden" rule into this fforums rules!
It would be rly kind from you.

Thank you to every1 who took the time and has read this text.




P.S.: Gianus i see your career starting, im alrdy excited wats gonna hapen next.


P.P.S: Man,.... this remembers me at SSA, and a lot of long discussions.
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