Official Vanguard Discussion

Shogun, that's not what Yuchika said. He said Dauntless is good in any Kagero deck. And it is good in ANY kagero deck. It actually really helps out Eclipse.

shogan its still useful as a back up if your normal plan doesnt go right

No.. you want Dauntless as your vanguard to get off the Break Ride effect. He should be your first ride, then you ride The End after to go for a push.

thats only in a deck that revolves around the end, in my deck it would be a back up as i run blazing flare ride chain so my normal plan is

grade one-> blazeing core+gattling claw+iron tail -> blazeing flare

so dauntless in a blazeing flare deck would be a back up plan if you either dont get blazing core or dont get gattling claw and iron tail

You run it in any deck no matter what. Not just The End. It's not specifically used for The End. And.. if you don't need to use the superior ride, don't ever use it. You lose advantage. And you could ride Dauntless, then Blazing Flare after.

Superior ride is better then break ride as it gives you a grade three before your opponent giving you significant advantage

The superior isn't better than the Break Ride. It doesn't give you significant advantage. You neg 2 to do it first of all, and then only even out when you drive check. So let's make a scenario

Your opponent is at Grade 2. They have 2 cards on field, and 6 in hand.

You have 2 cards on field, Conroe from the initial ride, and BCD on VG. And 5 cards in hand, plus one unflipped damage. You then call Gatling Claw, and Iron Tail Dragon. You proceed to use BCD's skill, moving them to soul. You now have 2 Units on field, with 3 cards in hand, and have deck thinned by one. You are now at G3. You drive check, making 5 cards in hand. We're right back where we were when we started. 2 Cards on field, and 5 in hand. You even out just to get one turn ahead of your opponent. Let's see another scenario that is similar, but this time you don't use the superior ride.

You are at Grade 2. With Conroe on RG, and BCD on VG. You have 2 cards on field, and 5 in hand, as well as one unflipped damage. You use Conroe, searching out a Grade 1. You now have 1 card on field, and 6 in hand, plus have deck thinned by one. You then proceed to call Iron Tail Dragon. Making 5 cards in hand. You then attack, and drive check. You now end your turn with 6 cards in hand, and 2 units on field.


Using the 2 scenarios above, I've proven that if your opponent is at G2, and you are too, and you superior ride, you are actually losing advantage as opposed to gaining it. First Scenario: Start with 2 units on field, and 5 in hand. Ended with 2 units on field, 5 in hand. Second SCenario: You started with 2 units on field, 5 in hand. You end with 2 units on field, 6 in hand.

Continuing with the first scenario now. Your opponent rides to G3. They now have 2 units on field, and 6 in hand. They attack, now having 8 cards in hand, and 2 on field. You draw, making 6 in hand. You attack, checking 2 times. You now have 8 cards in hand.

^So, you did a superior ride, and yet, wait... you have the same amount of hand and field? But but.. that's not possible if it generates advantage!? Impossibru!!!


Second Scenario. Your opponent rides to G3. They now have 2 units on field, and 6 in hand. They attack, now having 8 cards in hand, and 2 on field. You draw, making 7 in hand, then you proceed to ride. You now have 2 on field, and 6 in hand. You attack, you now have 8 cards in hand.

^Hold up here, in the first scenario, I did a superior ride, so I should gain advantage. But, in the second scenario, I didn't superior ride. But, I ended my turn on G3, with 8 in hand? But.. but.. the superior ride, it generates advantage?! Impossibru!!!



Now, aside from that example, which is why the superior ride doesn't generate advantage, here's one where it actually does.

You go FIRST. You ride, and end with 2 on field, 5 in hand. Your opponent rides, and attacks. They have 2 on field, and 6 in hand. You draw, having 6 in hand. You ride, you now have 5 in hand. You call 2 units, having 3 in hand. You now superior ride, giving you 3 in hand, and 2 on field. You attack, making 5 cards in hand. Your opponent draws and rides, giving them 6 cards in hand. They attack, making 7 cards in hand. They end. You draw, making 6 cards in hand. You attack, making 8 cards in hand. You end, your opponent draws, giving them 8 cards in hand. They ride, making 7 in hand. They attack, making 9 in hand. They end. You draw, making 9 in hand. You attack, making 11 cards in hand.


In ALL of these scenarios, I did not include triggers/damage/field advantage. Simply HAND advantage. In the LAST scenario, you end your turn with 11 in hand, which gave you a 2 card advantage over 3 turns. This is the only scenario that can give you advantage. I'm not saying that the VERY SMALL amount of advantage isn't good, but it's not significant enough to change the game in your favour. Anyway, that's just me proving that it does not give you significant advantage. If you want a more in-depth version of it, I'll explain it with damage/field/hand and potentially the amount of cards in deck left. So yeah.. just my long long explanation on sup rides.

~Totally read all 801 words.~Yeah that's right; Go ahead and count it.

th point of suppior riding is to have a twin drive check faster then your opponent thats the advantage right there as well as haveing more power then your opponent.

true break ride makes you more powerful but i still say a Superior ride is better in alot of decks bfd included

the point of a bfd deck is to Superior ride and destroy your opponents rg thus powering him up

if you break ride your skipping the whole point of the deck

you really are dumb arent you yuchika break rides are stupidly awesome in fact better than superior rides these days but based on what agent said in the scenerios i think he was trying to point out that you rather go plus and the blazing flare dragon superior ride doesnt give you an advantage at all (agent correct me if i am being inaccurate about my summery)

shogan first off you never played blazeing flare while it is my main deck

the point of blazeing flare is to pop cards with his abilty and Superior riding makes it easier to do that

so in blazeing flare its better to Superior ride if you can

is dauntless in cray online?

did you not take note of the scenerios given by agent yuchika i swear you are a dumbass sometimes

Yuchika, BFD may be your main, but the entire Kagero clan in my main. I know every in and out of the clan. The point of BFD is to retire units, and gain power, yes. While this can be achieved with the superior ride, it only ever works in one scenario. Which I believe is the last one I posted up. Plus, you have other methods of getting units to soul. AKA, Kimnara, Gatling Claw, Flame Edge Dragon. All of which are a 4 of in the deck, aside from Flame Edge, which is a 3 of. You don't need the superior ride, it's just nice to have it in there. And realistically, you're not going to ever get 10 in the soul with Kagero. At most you'll get 5, which is enough to use BFD's effect once.

You both have valid points but, and this isnt speaking of kagero, superior riding with my ezel gold paladins has given me a very large advantage many times. Sure i lose 2 on field but i also gain a larger attacker and a second chance for a trigger. Granted i never do this unless i have at least 1 grade 2 rear guard to use as well but it has given my the small, but invaluable, boost needed to win many fights.

Gold paladin's shouldn't be compared to Kagero. Gold can easily generate advantage as is, that's just what the clan does. Kagero cannot generate advantage easily, which is why a sup ride can harm you a lot.

Meanwhile on Cray, Saty's been rockin a bunch of different clans and trying to win tourneys while waiting for beff and mario to show up

then again agent golds are like royal they swarm the field but kagero retires units making your opponent have to put more on the field

Kagero don't retire a lot of units you know, maybe at most 2-3 in a game. And.. Royals like MLB do not generate advantage at all. MLB doesn't generate advantage. When you play, you typically have like 5-6 cards in hand at most at any given point.

agent is like kai lol

i understand what you mean agent but i prefer sup riding to brake riding as i wlel only sup ride if i have at lest 2 other grade 2s in my hand thus giving my field back its advantage.

Even so, after doing that, you would be left with 3 cards in hand. And let's say for example you have 2 10k shields, and one 5k shield. Your opponent attack your rear-guard, and you have to guard because you have no other rear-guards to attack with. Then they attack your rear-guard again, which you have to guard. Then, they attack your vanguard, well looky here, you have 1 in hand, and like what, 2 on field? Also don't forget, if they were playing Kagero, and had 2 damage, they would have called a berserk dragon popping one of your rear-guards. If they were playing any clan with a berserk dragon like skill, they would pop it. Giving you one rear-guard. And all this happened because of a superior ride.

Those yuchika-Agent arguments never get boring

And they're never ending.

then why bother convincing him agent he obviously has his head stuck in his ass